Great comments so far. I'm glad to see this much participation, although we still need to hear from a few more of you. As a general point, please make sure you read the whole thread of comments in addition to posting your own.
Since many people mentioned that Titian's Venus of Urbino is based on Giorgione's Sleeping Venus, I thought I would post that as well (see below). Nathalie put forward a comparison between the two versions, asking which one seems more powerful or in control. How would you all compare them? Which woman seems more/less powerful?
| Giorgione, c. 1510 |
| oil on canvas |
| 108,5 × 175 cm ~ 43 x 69 in. |
4 comments:
I feel like the space that the subject occupies is important in determining the "power" or "control" of the subject. In the Giorgione painting, Venus is outdoors, there are some trees and houses in the background. Whereas, in Venus of Urbino, the subject seems to have control over the space, like it's her room, her home. So I would say that Titian's Venus has more power, because it seems to me that she has power over her space, not just power over the viewer (because she is engaging with the viewer, looking into our eyes, as opposed to the sleeping Venus).
I would have to agree with alyson. I think the gaze has a great deal to do with it. The venus of urbino is looking directly at the viewer, while the tGiorgione painting is not. I also believe the manner of the body has a great deal to do with it. The way the venus of urbino is positioned in the room with her things and the way her body is portrayed allows her to control the situation. The other venus is not engaging us and is laying on the ground outside and has a more relaxed body position. I think the venus of urbino is more influential and at that time was a different way of painting the nude. While both have significant meanings, they portray different ideas.
I agree with both of you as well. Sleep is such a vulnerable position. Our focus is inward--we are not paying attention to the world around us. The Venus of Urbino is not only awake and aware of her surroundings, but also aware of the viewer, looking at us rather challengingly. Also the presence of the handmaids waiting on her gives her a higher status simply from the fact that these two people are waiting on her as well as showing she is a wealthy woman able to afford servants.
As seems to be the theme among the post, I too agree (at immediate first glance...but as I actually looked and 'studied' harder I also reveresed what I believed) that Titian's painting of the Venus at Urbino is more powerful. In addition to the gaze and body position that has been mentioned, I would like to speak more about the background. As the pastoral background in Gorgione's piece is peaceful and truly works as a non-speaking background. In contrast, Titian's painting portrays a maid or servant of some sort in the background...and it appears that the painter is implying that the women is in charge of this woman, or that this woman is doing chores/stuff etc...FOR her.
The question ultimately (in my current opinion) comes down to what is power today and what was power in another time period. For example, Titian's Venus of Urbino is more powerful, most importantly to most I feel, due to her gaze. In another culture or even a different time frame I could easily consider her gaze to be more offensive, or inappropiately directed at the viewer.
Even though Titians Venus is gazing at the viewer, her gaze is not necessarily one of over confidence or obvious modesty, it seems to be a combination of the two. In addition, her nudity is in the same room as a child and if she is experiencing any desire she is not portraying what she is feeling on her face, nor do I feel the colors within the picture are indirectly displaying any type of desire. The gaze is equally as weak as it is strong because I feel that the gaze often can imply that the viewer is acknowledging those around them and in doing so perhaps wondering what they think or feel. In saying this, I think that the gaze is a modern way to justify what power is...
i say this because...
In Giorgione's paintings I find that he has painted a girl that is clearly having a private moment with herself. To me, she does not appear to be sleeping, she could, but for the purpose of the point, her mouth is not slack enought and her arms body position implies enjoyment, but not the muscle relaxation that is seen in people who are in deep sleeps. Though her eyes are closed, it seems that she could almost be saying I could careless what you think of my provocative pose...in the painting her body is hers and only hers. In Titian's appears that she could even be considering wondering if the person gazing at her wants her body or likes to look at it...this is not seen in Gorgione's work. Color scheme is important too, Gorgione used deeper, richer, warmer tones (this just may be the computer or cleaning jobs...but I feel Gorgione's female has more orange/red/brown or something to her skin). I think that this scheme of colors indicates maybe the emotion of the painted woman. Specifically, the texture and color of thered pillows under the women. In Titian's painting the pattern on the pillow is uptight, repetitive, probably rich in detail if it were seen in real life, lacking irregular movement and truly any movement at all; her other pillows are also white, which may imply purity, youth, niave, newness to modeling etc.... Gorgione's women lies on a pillow that is a sumptous red, with unpredictable wrinkles. It is plumped and full, the pillow is not uptight and contains no contained pattern or structure.
I know I tend to ramble and the point becomes lost within the mess of words, but overall I think that in today's world, Titian's painting is more effective due to the popular and always mentioned importance of the gaze. I do beg to differ though that the eye is not the only portal to the human soul, and not the only communicator of modesty, fear, and power. Gorgione's female seems to be wrapped in her own world. Her lack of eye contact does allow us to look at her nude body without her permission or eyes looking back, but her face, seemingly entrapped in her own world truly exclude us and give her the ultimate power. When one is comfortable...the exert confidence is the common thing I often hear...Gorgione's Venus has no fear in showing us perhaps tinges of desire in her face, Titian's Venus asks us questions...it is only up to subjective thought to know whether she cares so much about answers or what others think of her.
Lastly, the value of nudity in our culture is very different than in other cultures. In some ways maybe an argument coudl be made between nudity and desire...what is the forbidden, or the exiled in which cultures. As for some people, the female is not necessarily giving up anything by allowing us to view her body without permission...as it is 'just' a body...however they may asks what is it that her face is telling us....and then I suppose we just around to the circular discussion of the gaze and such...but I must say there is something about the child in the white dress in Titian's Venus that does something to the nudity of the female.....
For a campaign that wanted to portray that women have masturbated for hundereds of years and about the pride for women who masturbate...which picture would you use? maybe odd, but I think that maybe the power in the pictures may shift according to the context...which of course is always the case that things change with context
...what about a campaign that just shows women full of strength and pride...a piece to campaign women in control of thier bodies.
Post a Comment